Russian President Vladimir Putin shocked the world public with his Ukraine speech on Monday. Markus Lanz discussed with his guests what this means in concrete terms. The position of the ex-ARD Moscow correspondent caused some outrage.
The Kremlin chief’s recent speech is a cause for concern and requires wise action by the West. All guests agreed on Tuesday evening at “Markus Lanz”. It didn’t take long, however, before differences in the assessment of Vladimir Putin’s speech became apparent in the round of talks.
Guest list:
-
Kevin KühnertSPD General Secretary
-
Robin Alexander, Deputy Editor-in-Chief of Welt
-
Gabriele Krone-Schmalz, former ARD Moscow correspondent/author
-
Gwendolyn Sasse, Politologin
“Modern Ukraine was created entirely by Russia,” Putin said, among other things, on Monday evening. In addition, the President claimed that Ukraine had “never been a true nation”.
“I didn’t understand that he was denying Ukraine’s right to exist with his speech,” said former ARD Moscow correspondent Gabriele Krone-Schmalz on “Lanz”. Instead, she read it to mean that Putin made a very strong point that Russia and Ukraine share a history.
“Excuse me?” Journalist Robin Alexander asked. He himself was shocked by the speech. Eastern Europe expert Gwendolyn Sasse also disagreed with Krone-Schmalz. From her point of view, the main message of the speech was that Ukraine has no right to exist as an independent state.
Sasse explained that Putin’s most recent gestures are about his own sensitivities and about building his political legacy for the future.
Former Moscow reporter offends
Meanwhile, Krone-Schmalz attributed Putin’s recent behavior to the fact that Russia felt its security interests were being pressured by Ukraine. The reason: “A counter-block” is building up there. The relationship between Russia and Ukraine has always been “very special,” according to the journalist. “The cradle of the Russian Empire is Kiev”.
With their classifications, Krone-Schmalz caused a stir several times on Tuesday evening. For example, when it came to the difficult living situation of the people who live on the contact lines in eastern Ukraine. “Bad and terrible” is their situation, explained Krone-Schmalz and found approval on this point. “Because Putin wants it that way,” SPD general secretary Kevin Kühnert pointed out.
Gabriele Krone-Schmalz (archive image): In the most recent Lanz broadcast, her statements caused incomprehension among other guests. (Source: imago images)
“I’m not here to justify Putin’s policies”
Krone-Schmalz didn’t want to leave it unreservedly. When she raised the question, “Welt” journalist Alexander asked in between: “I’m really upset, how can you justify that?” That was not her intention, according to the former reporter. Instead, she wanted to point out that the living situation in Ukraine is different in the west and in the east of the country.
The journalist also encountered headwind elsewhere from moderator Lanz. For example, when it came to Putin’s announcement that troops would be withdrawn from the border area. The head of the Kremlin had it at a meeting with the chancellor Olaf Scholz made, but then not complied with.
“There was a credible statement that the maneuvers were over, but then they weren’t over,” Krone-Schmalz said of the incident. “I define that as a lie,” explained Lanz. The situation could also have changed, according to the former ARD correspondent about the facts. “I’m not here to justify Putin’s policies,” she clarified. From their point of view, however, a change of perspective is absolutely necessary in order to keep the peace.
Lanz rebukes Krone-Schmalz: “It’s really silly”
Lanz let it stand. Elsewhere, however, he made himself clear in the direction of Krone-Schmalz with the words: “You can’t pretend you’re dealing with someone who only intervenes when it comes to defending poor Russians in breakaway areas – that’s really silly,” said the moderator.
“None of us are sitting here defending anything that Mr. Putin is doing,” the journalist replied. When asked what course of action she thinks is right in the current situation, Krone-Schmalz explained that she thinks a higher-level meeting of the NATO-Russia Council would make sense. Investments should also be made in “confidence-building measures” with Russia.
From their point of view, sanctions are not very effective. “I think that’s wrong Nord Stream 2 not going into operation,” said Krone-Schmalz. Also because this measure would primarily damage Germany. In connection with the pipeline, Lanz also steered the conversation on Tuesday evening to the former chancellor Gerhard Schröder.
Kevin Kühnert: No “linear connection” to actions in the Kremlin
General Secretary Kühnert resolutely rejected the moderator’s allusions to the fact that Schröder’s interests as a member of the Gazprom supervisory board could influence the decisions of the SPD. He also made it clear that “there is no linear connection” between the SPD and action in the Kremlin.
Putin recognized the independence of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in eastern Ukraine on Monday. The Kremlin boss ordered the dispatch of Russian soldiers. He is planning an invasion of Ukraine for the second time since 2014. The parliament in Moscow ratified the recognition on Tuesday. The upper house of parliament approved a deployment of troops.
The West accuses Putin of violating international law. According to Western sources, Russia has gathered about 150,000 soldiers on the border with Ukraine. Against the background of the escalating Russia-Ukraine conflict, the federal government stopped the approval process for the Russian-German Nord Stream 2 natural gas pipeline on Tuesday until further notice.