Whe cell phone pings constantly during the call at Bota Jardemalie. Again new news from Kazakhstan. This time an activist who wanted to report on the violent crackdown on the protests has disappeared. Nevertheless, the human rights lawyer from Kazakhstan, who has been granted political asylum in Belgium since 2013 and, according to her own words, escaped kidnappings there, takes a short time to talk. Because she wants to explain what is happening in her home country.
WORLD: Ms. Jardemalie, you shared a number of videos on Twitter from Kazakhstan that showed body bags. They also write that snipers shot at the demonstrators. The internet is cut off at the moment. Where do these videos come from?
Jardemalie boot: There is a network of activists in Kazakhstan with whom I work and who are currently collecting information independently of the state media. There has never been freedom of expression in Kazakhstan and the regime also controls social networks, so we get information mainly through Telegram. We explicitly call on the network to contact us or send videos if they have witnessed a crime. We also want to find out who shot and ask for the names of the dead.
WORLD: At the moment there are no concrete figures on how many people have been killed. Officially, dozens of demonstrators are said to have been “eliminated”. What information do you have?
Jardemalie: There are eyewitnesses who claim that at least a hundred people were shot. But I still think it’s too early to give exact figures, because I’m afraid that shooting is still going on in Kazakhstan. It is also uncertain whether the exact numbers will ever be found out. In 2011, following protests, there was a massacre in a small town that was covered up. Then the people simply disappeared and it was said that they had died of pneumonia.
WORLD: Do you fear that the regime will now take the opportunity of the uprising to get rid of opposition groups for good?
Jardemalie: In fact, contact with a member of our network is the representative of the opposition movement “Democratic Election of Kazakhstan” canceled in Kiev. He was attacked and beaten by strangers in civilian clothes. At the same time, the headquarters were searched by people who introduced themselves as members of the Ukrainian security service but did not show their IDs. Both activists were actively involved in gathering information about the shooting at the demonstrators.
WORLD: The current conflict in Kazakhstan was relatively unexpected for the West. So far everyone has been talking about Ukraine – maybe Bosnia.
Jardemalie: Yes I know. Kazakhstan has managed to appear to the outside world like a successful, prosperous state with more or less democratic values, right? The PR specialists did a really good job there. To understand the protests, you have to know that Kazakhstan has been an autocratic kleptocracy for decades. The country is ruled by the “family” as we Kazakhs also call the regime – that is, the president, his family members and a very small elite circle. The “family” controls everything: politics, economy, all crucial areas of society. Inflation, unemployment and social injustice are therefore very widespread, although studies suggest that Kazakhstan should be one of the six richest nations in the world because of its natural resources. But normal people do not share in this wealth – and people are tired of it. They have a very clear message that they also chanted during the protests: “Old man, go!”. They finally want free elections. So gas and oil prices were just the drop that broke the barrel.
Source: WORLD infographic
WORLD: But it doesn’t look like the demonstrators will be able to prevail. On the contrary. Russia sent soldiers.
Jardemalie: Yes, allegedly Belarus has also sent soldiers, but we activists have not yet received any confirmation. It’s crazy: yesterday we were still a sovereign state, now we are in an area occupied by Russians. This is a complete shift in the geopolitical situation in the region. What is happening to us is exactly what has happened in Ukraine or partly in Georgia. You can see that in the choice of words. First the people, who for the most part took to the streets peacefully, were demonstrators, then criminals and now it’s terrorists.
WORLD: How did it come about from your point of view?
Jardemalie: The regime knew that it could only restore the old order with the help of foreign troops, because it feared that its own soldiers and police might join the protests. The population wants change, the regime doesn’t want it. Governments like the one in Kazakhstan – although I actually refuse to call the regime that – has excellent contacts with the criminal milieu. I suspect that this is why groups were smuggled into the peaceful protests that set government buildings on fire. This legitimized the use of firearms against its own population. In addition, the population has been so frightened that they will no longer participate in the protests.
WORLD: Against this background, how do you see the future of your country?
Jardemalie: It won’t be easy in the short term. In the long run, however, I am optimistic that the protest is far from over. People finally felt that they and their problems had been noticed. In addition, such structural problems created by a regime like this will not go away overnight. The “family” will not just give up their power. So the population understands that they are fighting for their future. The only thing that makes me very sad is the human distance that will arise between neighboring countries. The people of Kazakhstan will not soon forget this intervention by Russia. That is why two nations that were previously close friends could become enemies.
WORLD: What reaction would you like from Germany?
Jardemalie: Germany is a very, very important country for Kazakhstan. Mainly because of the trade relations. So far, the human rights situation in Kazakhstan has been ignored. But regimes like the current one are not good trading partners because they are unstable. We will therefore ask Germany to support an independent investigation into what happened so that we can clarify how the shooting at the peaceful demonstrators came about. And we demand personal sanctions for those who have participated. That is why we are currently collecting all information on this. We want to know: who is responsible for it?
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