Debates in the savings bank camp always last forever: not only because there are so many of them, but also because the state has a say everywhere. The Landesbanken also belong to federal states that have been heavily involved in the dispute over the security system. The city of Stuttgart even has a stake of almost 20 percent in LBBW, which is based in Baden-Württemberg. In addition, the state holdings in LBBW, Helaba and Co. complicate the discussion of transforming the Landesbanken into a more efficient Sparkasse umbrella institute. The politicians are reluctant to part with it, after all, the Landesbanken can be a powerful tool.