Dangerous escalation: The Ukrainians want to retake more, but the Russians want to destroy even more before winter stops the fighting. Maybrit Illner worries: “Hot war in Ukraine – hybrid war in Europe?”
The guests
► Omid Nouripour (47, Greens). The party leader is (still) resisting demands from his party to supply battle tanks to Ukraine.
► Gregor Gysi (74, left). The ex-group leader issued an ultimatum: “Militarily, Russia cannot be beaten unless we make World War III!”
► Margarete Klein (49). The military expert fears: “Putin wants a vassal state.”
► Ben Hodges (64). The retired lieutenant general, ex-commander in chief of the US Army in Europe, calls the analysis of the Bundeswehr’s leadership of the Russian military “breathtakingly poor”.
► Prof. Peter R. Neumann (47). The terrorism expert describes how critical infrastructure should be better protected.
► Katrin Eigendorf (60). The ZDF reporter reported on Tuesday to “Markus Lanz” from Kyiv: “This is a whole new escalation quality!” She is also switched on.
Politics and practice, how do they fit together today? The Zoff-o-Meter expects verbal impacts!
Most oppressive record
ZDF reporter Eigendorf shocked the group with devastating information: “I’m really experiencing Kyiv in an exceptional situation!” She reports. It’s “like walking through Berlin and having to reckon with rockets hitting the Kudamm!”
“So many people have been torn from their lives here!”, Eigendorf then describes, visibly upset. “In the east, almost the entire infrastructure has been destroyed. I wonder how people want to live there. Houses in ruins. Hospitals, schools, kindergartens, nothing works anymore…”
ZDF reporter Katrin Eigendorf
Darkest prediction
„ Putin is under pressure,” says military expert Klein. “The regime legitimizes itself very strongly by demonstrating foreign policy greatness and successes. When that pillar falls away, it’s really difficult. So you try to escalate.”
through the mobilization, the expert went on to say, “there is a clear signal that this war should go on for a long time. Then, on top of that, there is the nuclear threat, designed to discourage further support from the West.”
Most worrying picture of the situation
“Putin is running out of precision weapons,” observes Lieutenant General Hodges. “The sanctions make it for Russia impossible to replace them. That is why they are now using anti-aircraft weapons against apartment buildings.”
This changes Putin’s strategy because, according to Hodges: “What is happening on the ground is catastrophic. It’s a failure in every facet. Attempts are now being made to prolong the war so that we slowly but surely lose our patience and willpower.”
Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges
Angriest contradiction
Gysi always pulls the same scam: first he criticizes the Russians, but soon others are to blame again, now for example the German armaments industry. “We mustn’t earn more money from wars,” warns the leftist, and rants about “arms deliveries to Saudi Arabia with the consent of the Greens.” Are you serious?
Nouripour knits his brows together: “I have to admit that I’m upset several times about what Gregor Gysi said!” rumbles the Green leader. “I don’t know what this has to do with Saudi Arabia now! It is crucial that we now give Ukraine the things it needs!”
Most painful error analysis
Then the Green folds the left: “You evade responsibility for the topic Ukraine!” he thunders at Gysi. “And then also say that everything else is more important! That plays into Putin’s game that we’re all losing patience.” Double boom!
Prof. Neumann is also critical: “We lost a lot of trust because of the hesitation at the beginning, when it took a long time for Germany to deliver the weapons,” he complains.
His current accusation: “We have now delivered an air defense system, but only 48 missiles. If Russia attacks, the system can protect a large city, but only for half a day.” Oof!
Peter R. Neumann
Most comforting impression
ZDF reporter Eigendorf interviewed the Ukrainian president the day before: “He doesn’t see the situation as bleak anymore,” she reports. But: “What fills him with great concern is that the Europeans are very intimidated by Putin’s threat of nuclear weapons.”
After all, in Bucha Selensky said, according to Eigendorf, “bitterly that Angela Merkel should take a look at what the result of the German appeasement policy is.” spoke: Poland’s Duda, Emmanuel Macron and Olaf Scholz, whom he even calls by his first name.”
Most professional assessment
“Zelensky sees the resilience of his military and his people,” analyzes the US general. “He knows that there is actually no will to fight on the Russian side.”
Hodges continued: “It is also about a war between the will of the Kremlin and the will of the West. And this is the last winter when Russia can still cut off energy supplies. The Russians played their gas card, the ace up their sleeve, way too early!”
Most optimistic forecast
“If we stick together now, Russia will be pushed back by next summer,” predicts the general. “I even believe that Crimea can be liberated again next summer.” Amen!
Most Dangerous Dilemma
“These are only the first escalation steps,” warns Prof. Neumann. “At the end of this spiral there may be the use of tactical nuclear weapons. And that must influence the strategic calculation!”
Because, according to the expert: “We want Ukraine to win. But what is a gain?” Good question. How about this: All Russians out, and finally peace again?
Brazen diversionary maneuver
“We are the fifth largest arms exporter in the world,” Gysi begins again. In Germany, the only question now is whether the social protests would be carried out by the AfD or the left.
After that, the left-wing politician “doesn’t want to talk about Kosovo,” but of course he does, jabbing his index finger in the air: “At the time I said how wrong that was and that it would catch on,” he railed. But then NATO saved the Kosovars from annihilation, and soon they will even be allowed into the EU…
Cheeky haggling
Prof. Neumann is already worried about the possible “collapse of the state” of Russia after the defeat. “Actually, the Russians are looking for a dispute with the USA,” suspects the talk show host. Perfect cue for America old critic Gysi: “Right!” He nods eagerly.
Then the left even wants to take over the moderation: “May I ask the general two very short questions?” Illner is puzzled. “One! You have to make a choice,” she replies. “Then I’ll include both in one question,” chuckles the left-hand man. “You are a smart boy,” praises the talk show host. What’s going on here?
dialogue of the evening
Gysi’s question is shockingly transparent: whether there is secret diplomacy between Russia and the USA over the heads of the Ukrainians?
“I was about to ask that,” says Illner, and with a look at Hodges: “Should he answer now? I’ll sort it out now.” Gysi stays tuned: “These two questions!” he giggles, and the talk show host snorts. Tri tra trullala…
Military expert Margarete Klein
Most overdue clarification
Military expert Klein puts the talk back on track: “Russia is interested in negotiations,” she explains, “but which ones? Negotiations for Ukraine’s surrender, and negotiations designed to create a tactical pause in which Russia consolidates what it has conquered.” Right!
“Negotiations as a process,” explains the expert, “where you can try to split Western states by giving one the role of mediator and not the other.” The Russian leadership is not at all interested in real negotiations, because that remains their goal Obliteration of Ukrainians as a nation.
Most annoying answer
Illner wants to know it again: “Does Ms. Wagenknecht also speak on your behalf when she says that the federal government has started an economic war?” she asks Gysi.
Bananas of all things! The Left is not at all on good terms with the comrade. “If you have a question for Ms. Wagenknecht, then I ask you to ask Ms. Wagenknecht and not me!” he snaps at the talk show host. Heidewitzka!
SPD politician Fritz Felsentreu “Further weaken Russia!”
13.10.2022
Last Stand
The next ZDF clip shows the vulnerability of the German infrastructure: pipelines, railway lines, wind turbines. “It’s obvious that the Russian leadership is doing a lot to ensure that we are hit and injured,” Nouripour worries.
Then the horses go through him again: “I just have to confess that Mr. Gysi manages to upset me with every answer,” he rumbles. The two will no longer be friends…
Most surprising claim
“What is needed now,” the Green leader finally announces, “is more investment in the protection of critical infrastructure, better integration of federal and state governments, better equipment…”
And, as Nouripour concludes: “Of course we also need, at the end of the day, and that’s a lengthy process, uh… more… more police.” Hallelujah!
quote of the evening
“What needs to be done now is for the political leadership to address their fellow citizens as if they were talking to adults.” Ben Hodges
Conclusion
Debate without a helmet, but in permanent accusation mode and with far too much self-portrayal gossip. At least the professionals from the military and science brought some important information across. That was a talk show in the “Basic public service” category.