2023-08-03 15:28:44
Brazilian Foreign Minister Mauro Vieira. Photo: Itamaraty Palace
(From Brasília). Since the return of Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva to power earlier this year, Brazil has tried to play a mediating role in the conflict unleashed by Russia after its invasion of Ukraine.
This conciliatory position has brought criticism to the government of the leader of the Workers’ Party (PT). But the diplomacy of the South American country seems to remain firm in its intention to sit both parties at a dialogue table to achieve an end to the war.
Infobae spoke with the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Brazil, Mauro Vieira at the Itamaraty Palace, headquarters of the Foreign Ministry and Brazilian diplomacy, about the role that the government has been playing since the PT returned to power, not only with respect to the conflict in Ukraine, but in the different scenarios of the global political agenda, in which President Lula seems to have the intention of claiming a more leading role during his third term.
– Why does President Lula want to carry the banners of mediation in a conflict that is taking place far from his territory and put an invaded country into dialogue with its own aggressor?
I believe that dialogue is the only solution and I believe that we should sit down and talk as President Lula has suggested. We have condemned the invasion, but on the other hand we have said from the beginning, from the first day in government, President Lula has said that he is against the war and that now he is against the continuation of the war. He has been motivating other countries in every way he can, bilaterally, in international and multilateral forums, saying that we have to create space for negotiation and conversation. It is time that we sit down and stop all this suffering and everything that is happening, deaths, destruction of infrastructure on both sides. We do not want to be the protagonists in this situation, what we want is to raise our voice.
– Do you think that the conditions are right for this dialogue to take place despite the fact that, as you have just acknowledged, there is one party that initiated the aggression against the other?
What we want is a final result that is peace, it doesn’t matter who is the one who takes the first step and does something, we will applaud it and we will join our forces and we will accompany them in some way and we will help them. We have no desire to be in the front line, we just want to get the attention of the world, because this is a war that is killing people, causing many problems like inflation. That is why we want to contribute to the solution.
– The President of Chile, during the Summit in Brussels, was much more emphatic with respect to his position on what is happening in Ukraine. Is there a difference in the way both countries perceive the solution to the conflict?
Our position is very clear, we are against the invasion and in favor of negotiation. We have very important trade relations with Russia and the European Union, perhaps for Chile it is different, I am not sure what their trade flows are like. But what President Boric said is a position in political terms, perhaps he spoke more about it, but we have the same position, we are both against the invasion, perhaps he was more expressive, but there is no difference. Brazil is not in favor of the invasion, Brazil is not against Ukraine, we are ready to talk to both, as we do, President Lula has sent his suggestions to both countries, to Russia and Ukraine and we are ready to continue talking to both countries. I have met with the Foreign Minister of Ukraine, I have met twice with the Russian Foreign Minister because we met in India for the G20 and we even met here. I met the Ukrainian foreign minister in Munich, in the framework of the Munich Security Forum, and I have spoken to him on the phone at least once or twice. So we have communication channels with both countries and we don’t have any position contrary to Chile’s. Perhaps he spoke more openly about political concepts, but we have the same position.
The canciller of Brazil, Mauro Vieira. Photo: Palacio Itamaraty
– A BRICS meeting is approaching and there are divided positions on whether Vladimir Putin, as a member of the bloc, can attend, either in person or not. In any case, will the issue of war be discussed?
In the two previous meetings, in Denmark and in Saudi Arabia, Russia was not present. At the next BRICS summit in South Africa, it is an ideal and perfect occasion to speak, because the five members of the bloc will have the opportunity to discuss this issue with President Putin. Something can come out of this meeting and it can be complementary to all the initiatives that have already been discussed in Denmark and Saudi Arabia. Also we will have new possibilities and ideas that will come out of this meeting and we will discuss them and maybe something good can come out. I am sure that President Putin will not be there (in person), but he will be online. Then we will have the occasion for the five presidents to talk and discuss.
– The European Union seems to be increasingly compacted in terms of support for Ukraine. Do you think that the position that Brazil is adopting on the war could affect the negotiations between the EU and Mercosur?
No, I don’t think so, we have our position, which is quite clear, we are against war and we are calling for peace. We have been discussing with the European Union, not just now, but for more than 22 years this agreement between the EU and Mercosur and now we are very close to being able to sit down with the EU and discuss the final part of this agreement.
Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva visited China and met with Xi Jinping (Ricardo Stuckert/Brazil Presidency/Handout via REUTERS)
– There are suspicions that Brazil has boycotted the free trade agreement between Uruguay and China outside of Mercosur. What can you say about it, what is your position?
We are very clear on this, there is an agreement, the Mercosur agreement, the first article says that we are a constituted union. So we have to negotiate together. They want to negotiate, they have started to chat, they have approached each other, but it is not a negotiation. We can negotiate with China together, the Mercosur countries, as a bloc.
– President Lula has reestablished communications with the Nicolás Maduro regime, despite being investigated by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity. What do you think about the abuse of human rights in Venezuela, Nicaragua and Cuba?
President Lula, as soon as he took a position in the government, immediately gave me instructions to reopen the embassy and consulates that had been closed by the previous government and we want to continue talking (with Venezuela), it is an important country, we have a very large border, We have more than 20 thousand Brazilians living in Venezuela and of course we know that it has huge oil and gas reserves and it is a very important country and we want to keep talking. And we have been talking with them about the issue of human rights, not only since now, but for many years ago when I was the foreign minister of President (Dilma) Rousseff and I was part of the negotiations when they took After the parliamentary elections of 2015, when the government lost, we participated in Brazil, Colombia and Ecuador, as part of Unasur and we traveled many times to discuss with Maduro and the opposition, we are still doing the same. We have taken part in this dialogue group (between the regime and the opposition) that was started in Mexico and that met only a month ago in Colombia and we will continue to be part of these conversations, of these negotiations.
Brazilian President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, right, shakes hands with his Venezuelan counterpart Nicolás Maduro before their bilateral summit at the Planalto palace, Monday, May 29, 2023, in Brasilia. (AP Photo/Gustavo Moreno)
– But do you recognize that there are human rights abuses in Venezuela?
Yes, we recognize it, it is an issue that has to be discussed, we have been talking with them and with other countries, including in Geneva, with the human rights consul, because we are ready and open to discuss any issue that is necessary . Especially in the case of Nicaragua, we have had the opportunity to vote in Geneva and that has made our position clear, it is an issue that worries us. And of course we have traditional relations with Cuba, I think they are facing a very complex economic situation but we are even working with them in relation to the defense of human rights, we talk to all of them about these problems.
– Argentina is on the eve of holding presidential elections and relations between the two countries are very important. Is there any candidate that you support or with whom you feel would be more comfortable working from Casa Rosada?
You can always have your preferences, but the important thing is that Argentina and Brazil cannot live apart or turn their backs on each other, whoever is in power, we will support them and we will keep in touch. The important thing is the national interest, it is always necessary to talk to your neighbors, we will keep talking regardless of the party that is in power, that is the way it should be. We cannot live apart. Brazil and Argentina have highly integrated economies, we cannot tear down these important relationships.
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