2023-12-16 10:45:00
Ukraine, Israel-Hamas, anti-Semitism…: we are putting aside some of our questions and we are resuming, starting with extracts from the novel by the former French economist. But here again, the octogenarian hits the mark. “These are my characters who say the things you quote. You must definitely not put these words in my mouth,” he says, visibly annoyed. It’s obvious, we are just trying to go further than the content of the novel to understand the way of thinking of the man who made the success of the French left. After another question and a new reprimand, we cut the conversation short. We thank him for giving us some of his time. After all, it’s not every day that we have the opportunity to chat with Jacques Attali. Fortunately…
In your novel, global warming is getting worse, Donald Trump is in his third term, Marine Le Pen is President of the Republic, China has attacked its neighbors, Africa is on fire… This prediction is scary . Is it likely that it will come true?
It’s true that it’s worrying. But this is not at all certain, fortunately… These are events which are however probable. I would even say that the probability is greater than 50%. In 1908, everything looked good. Progress continued. However, in 1914, everything changed, we found ourselves facing the worst: a war, a financial crisis, then a second war… A century of horror. We can have the same shift if we make mistakes similar to those of that time.
We see the far right triumphing in several European countries. Does this worry you?
Yes, but at the same time we saw the extreme right retreat in Poland. Nothing is certain, nothing is certain, nothing is decided in advance. The only way to fight against the worst is to plan for it. By making these predictions, I hope to participate in the fight to ensure that it is won.
Do you have the impression that current politicians are taking this fight against the extreme right head on enough?
No, not everywhere. It is not by playing into the hands of the extreme right that we will defeat it. We must have a radically different, radically democratic project. Donald Tusk is an example of this. His deeply pro-European project shows to what extent the far right is destroying Europe. It accelerates the decline of Europe.
You recently said that you hadn’t finished serving the left. What do you mean by that ?
I have always been a man of the left and I remain so. The left must be reinvented in a radically different global context. It needs to be reinvented around concepts that I have been advocating for several years, which I call the economy of life and political society. We must give priority to future generations and do everything to ensure that the economy of life is more profitable than the economy of death.
In “Blessed is our world”, one of your characters believes that “capitalism is just a little shit, a cowardly dwarf who can’t resist a little slap”. Do you think so too?
My character embarks on an adventure of radical transformation of the world. Unfortunately, I don’t think capitalism is that easy to beat. My character doesn’t think so himself given the method he uses which consists of profoundly transforming the behavior of each of us. I hope through this book to show that if the world is in its current state, it is not because there are a few bad guys, but because each of us accepts it. We must profoundly change our behavior, and not just that of consumers, parents, activists, savers. If we no longer recommended products from the economy of death, the economy of death would collapse. We are all responsible.
“If we really want to be radical, we should demand by force, if necessary, that capitalists give up ownership of their securities and give their property to States, to employees or to a new global entity,” reads we in your novel. It’s an idea of your characters. But does it speak to you?
The book is about how to change the world for the good of all and how to get there. My characters bring it up during a meeting. And they talk in particular about the means of expropriating capital to entrust it to a global entity or other. They realize that it wouldn’t change much. That wouldn’t be enough. That’s why they don’t do it.
Do you fear that there will be more violent positions and acts coming from the population in the future?
It’s possible. From the moment the situation becomes clearly contrary to the interests of future generations, there can be both actions in a reactionary sense on the part of people who imagine that we can return to the past and violent reactions from people who would like to prioritize the future. They would like to create the conditions to avoid the coming catastrophe.
In your book, you describe a youth that was partly a little stupid. Are you worried about young people’s interests?
One of the main characters is a French teacher in a high school in the Paris region who is confronted with a multifaceted youth, who likes to read, dream, prepare for the future, but who are sometimes interested in trivial things or which are drowning in video games. I’m only talking about Western youth. It’s even worse in the United States and Canada, where, more than in Europe, drugs and obesity are starting to take their toll. In the countries of the South, I also see an extraordinarily determined youth who want to take power. The fight is not lost. The difficulty is that the adversary is ourselves.
Do you think, as one of your characters says, that the leaders are not the politicians but “obscure characters, hidden in the secret services, the cartels, the central banks, a few of the most discreet financiers, a few… some of the greatest technologists, a few ideologues, a few business executives”?
I don’t know if you’ve seen my book, which is not an essay but a novel. What I make the characters say is not what I think.
We understand this well but, during this interview, we ask you about your own vision…
I would like the reader of the novel to form an idea for themselves by being confronted with characters who think that there are different powers. We must realize that we are not spectators of power, but that everyone has power in their hands. Finding scapegoats is too easy. What makes it possible to make changes is when people move, when they boycott products, when they demand that their bankers use their money differently.
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