- Gerardo Lissardy
- BBC News World
image source, Getty Images
Vladyslav Starodubtsev says he stayed in Ukraine instead of leaving his country after the Russian invasion to show that socialists like him can help in times of war.
“We work in humanitarian aid, with refugees in western Ukraine, buying and delivering medicines, military equipment or weapons,” says Starodubtsev in an interview with BBC Mundo.
His Sotsyalnyi Rukh (Social Movement) party is a Ukrainian democratic socialist organization that defines itself contrary to capitalism and intolerance.
And in recent days he has also sought to convince leftist groups in the West — from Spain’s Podemos to the Venezuelan Trotskyists — to support sending weapons to Ukraine against Moscow’s forces.
Since Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the invasion of Ukraine in February, some leftist parties, leaders and governments have avoided condemning it with the clarity that other and, instead, pointed to a responsibility of the United States and NATO in the crisis.
“Not even the Russian socialists make the same mistake as the Western socialists” and “are opposed to the invasion,” Starodubtsev maintains.
What follows is a summary of the telephone dialogue that this Ukrainian socialist, barely 19 years old and a member of his party’s Council, had with BBC Mundo from kyiv.
How is the situation there?
It is more or less stabilized. In the first days there was panic, but also an effort to organize and help each other. People traveled miles to join the army.
Now it has stabilized and everything is back to normal. People have got used to aerial sirens and bombings and try to lead a normal life, like before the war.
What thinks of the Russian invasion of Ukraine?
I think the Russian invasion is absolutely unjustified and horrible.
Some try to say that Russia is defending itself against NATO. But this has no correlation with reality.
image source, Vitalyi Dudin / Sotsialnyi Rukh
At 19, Vladyslav Starodubtsev is a member of the Council of the Ukrainian socialist party Social Movement.
In reality it is a war of radical Russian nationalism that believes it has the right to decide what the Ukrainians should be, how they should live. It is a war of Russian imperialism.
His party has been in opposition to the government of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. How do you see the way he responded to the Russian invasion of Ukraine?
There are two dimensions to that answer. First of all, the military response and everything related to it, such as its way of campaigning in the media, its appeal to the Europeans, and so on.
In this regard, Zelensky has done a great job. He motivated everyone, showed leadership in the war. He has made correct military decisions. He did a great job bringing everyone together in this fight.
But there is a second dimension to his response: the social dimension, defending the stability of the Ukrainian people. Here the answer is much worse.
In times of war, the government tries to promote its anti-labor reform, reform the labor code to have 60 hours of work per week and that workers can be fired without justification.
They are also pushing welfare cuts and debt reform that puts all the necessities of the war on the poor, while defending businesses and corporations. In this regard, Zelensky was horrible.
Did ideology play any role in how you and others in Ukraine reacted to the Russian invasion?
We, as socialists, are opposed to Russian imperialism from the beginning.
But ideology, unfortunately, played a role in the western left to defend Putin’s policies and imperialism against Ukraine.
some ileftists westerners They have blamed the Russian invasion on what they call “expansionism” by the US or NATO in their country. dohow do you take this argument?
I think this argument is blatantly wrong.
It is a thought centered on the West: that all the problems of the West should be transferred to other regions.
In fact, Ukraine itself tried to get into NATO because of this existential threat from Russian imperialism, from radical Russian nationalism on its borders.
To say that this is US or NATO pressure on Ukraine is absolutely false.
The war started about eight years ago in the Donbass region when the Russian army invaded the territory of Ukraine and seized Crimea.
image source, Getty Images
“If the Ukrainian army and resistance have no weapons to defend themselves, then Ukraine will not exist,” says Starodubtsev.
No one in Ukraine felt safe after this. Everyone feared the Russian invasion.
What the western left cannot understand is that their problem with NATO has nothing to do with the situation in this region. This is absolutely different.
Leaders and left-wing organizations in the West have also criticized the arms supply to Ukraine, saying it undermines peace and supports war. Do you agree?
We are absolutely in favor of sending weapons to Ukraine. Our activists participate in the army and are fighting on the front lines right now. And we try to supply them with everything they need.
War and aggression cannot be stopped with words. If the Ukrainian army and the Ukrainian resistance have no weapons to defend themselves, then Ukraine will not exist, the Ukrainian people will not have the right to determine their politics, their economy, their culture and their way of life.
I believe that those who oppose sending weapons to Ukraine oppose the right of self-determination of the Ukrainian people and the right of Ukraine to defend itself.
To achieve any compromise or any peace, the negotiators need to have power and without this there will be no peace; there will be war to the end, as Putin wanted at the beginning.
So sending weapons to Ukraine is not only the right thing to do for self-determination, but it is also the right thing to do if you think about saving lives and stopping the war as soon as possible.
Why do you think some western leftists seem more willing to criticize the US and NATO than Putin and Russia in this war?
Due to his frustration with the US and its policies in general; they try to find something anti-American to support.
They are as if locked in that traditional thought that does not have much in common with leftism and socialist thought, but with a blatant anti-Americanism.
image source, Getty Images
Many Russians are against the war, but law enforcement has responded against the demonstrations.
These people have above all Soviet nostalgia, nostalgia for a bipolar world. And they have some hatred towards the peoples that became independent nations after the collapse of the USSR, like Ukraine, Georgia, etc.
Are you saying that the right thing for the left is to support the people of Ukraine and reject Russia’s actions instead of blaming the United States and NATO?
Yes absolutely. Condemning the Russian invasion and expressing support for sending weapons to Ukraine is at least for every socialist, every person on the left who believes in the freedom of the people, that the people should have the right to decide their destiny. It is the minimum for anyone on the left.
And thinks about the idea that Russia is trying to “denazify” Ukraine, as Vladimir Putin said to justify the invasion?
It is totally false. In Ukraine we have a problem with the extreme right, especially in the streets and something in the army. But they have little influence on Ukrainian politics and ordinary life.
They have a very specific role, mainly as political bandits for the oligarchs and some companies. No more. In most countries something like this exists.
In Ukraine there is the Azov battalion, which is part of the army. And the Ukrainian army is apolitical, so they can’t do anything: they obey strict orders.
As for other organizations, political parties or neo-Nazis, they have no influence on Ukrainian politics.
We have much fewer problems with the extreme right than in the European Union and especially Russia, which justifies everything by that ethnonationalist ideology of uniting Russians, Belarusians and Ukrainians into a single ethnic group and that the Russians are the masters of this union. This is the same as fascism.
Is your position shared with the rest of the leftist organizations in Ukraine? Or are there differences depending on who you talk to?
There are pro-Russian leftists in the Ukraine and in Russia. But I don’t think calling them leftists is appropriate. They are Stalinists in the Communist Party of Ukraine. Same with banned parties that call themselves leftist but are actually mostly right-wing conservative and pro-Russian nationalist groups that support racism, sexism, patriarchy, homophobia, and even anti-Semitism.
So these parties are more united to the right than to the left. The only thing they have in common with the left is their name.
image source, Getty Images
Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro has established a close relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin
The same thing happens in Russia: some Stalinist organizations. The Communist Party of the Russian Federation supports the invasion. But on the independent left, those who are progressive, all oppose the Russian invasion with one voice.
Even Russian socialists who do not have these ties to the government all oppose the Russian invasion and support sanctions and arms shipments to Ukraine.
Even Russian socialists do not make the same mistake as Western socialists: they are in favor of weapons and sanctions.
GLeft-wing governments in Latin American countries such as Cuba, Bolivia, Nicaragua and Venezuela are allies of Russia and have refused to condemn it for invading Ukraine. What would be your message to these governments?
I believe that most of these governments are not leftist, but authoritarian, not democratic, and are repressing their own people, especially in places like Venezuela or Cuba. They also have their problems with NATO, the unjustified blockade of Cuba and a complicated situation.
I probably don’t say anything to these countries or their governments, but to their people: they must oppose Russian imperialism and its authoritarian rule if they want to help Ukraine and bring democracy or social progress to their countries as well. Because these countries depend on Russian imperialism. And they are in favor of supporting Russia because they have no other choice.
So it is important for the people of these countries to oppose their government and their government’s links with Russia, to promote democratic and socialist policies in their countries.
