This sequence is the first initiative discussion. We give 7 minutes to the candidate with the initiative. You are free to discuss the topic without any restrictions. However, you must ask at least two candidates. For discussion within the limited time, please make sure to speak within 1 minute and 20 seconds of the leader’s speech. Opponents must be given at least 30 seconds of speaking time. I would like to point out that the moderator will have to intervene if you have a heated discussion, but if you ask only one candidate, or if the question exceeds 1 minute and 20 seconds, and if you do not guarantee the 30 second time required for an answer, the moderator will be forced to intervene. Initiative discussion, first order. Candidate Ahn Cheol-soo.
[안철수]
I’m going to ask Candidate Yoon. Did you say that the stock transfer tax will be abolished?
[윤석열]
That’s right.
[안철수]
Also, he said that the property tax would be abolished, and later, he said that it would be calculated this way by adding it to the property tax.
[윤석열]
I didn’t change it.
[안철수]
I’ll cut it down eventually, isn’t it? So, it seems that you have come up with several tax cut policies. By the way, do you know how much the total budget required for the promises that candidate Yoon has announced so far? Have you calculated it?
[윤석열]
I’m thinking about 250 trillion.
[안철수]
Then, it is estimated that it will be almost 300 trillion won in front of the cost housing, but it seems to be about two hundred and several tens of trillions of dollars. Then, in reality, that money is almost half of our budget, so where can we get the finances?
[윤석열]
It seems that our candidate Ahn wasn’t ready for the other side’s promises. Cost housing is a pre-sale housing, so as you well know, it is not a problem because you do not own rental housing or assets. There is no separate budget involved. to take it all back.
[안철수]
So I asked a couple hundred or tens of trillions other than that.
[윤석열]
I don’t know if you’re doing it on purpose or knowing that you’re saying it’s 300 trillion, but that doesn’t seem like much. And from two hundred one fifty trillion to sixty trillion. We have budget experts and we are calculating everything, and then this is done every year… If we do this every year, then even if the budget doesn’t increase, it’s 3000 trillion won in 5 years, of which 50% is the discretionary budget. Then we adjust our spending by about 10% of our discretionary budget. And because there is a natural increase in tax revenue, taking that into account, we can do enough without raising taxes or issuing government bonds.
[안철수]
I need to supplement a little bit more detail. As you said, the total budget for this year is 600 trillion won, of which the discretionary budget is 300 trillion won. However, that includes national defense and civil servant labor costs. So, it’s money you can’t spend on your own. So, after subtracting it, the actual discretionary budget we can spend is about 200 trillion won. So, it’s not very easy to do 10% through restructuring, but even if you do, only 20 trillion won will come out. Then it means that the amount of money that is not enough to properly implement the current candidate Yoon’s promises.
[윤석열]
That’s not it.
[안철수]
So where else would you like to find it?
[윤석열]
Because about half of the budget is the statutory budget, and there are some rigid budgets among the discretionary budgets, the remaining budget is mainly used for prioritizing what is important to any government, so it is possible to restructure spending as much as possible. There is. In addition, along with economic growth, natural tax revenues are increasing through many deregulations and support for corporate growth. So, if you add them up, it was possible for any government to spend about 50 trillion won in a budget related to an election pledge of about 5 billion won a year without much difficulty.
[안철수]
Well, I think it’s very difficult for us to make that much money for the restructuring of spending. Actually, changing the existing budget by 10% is extremely difficult because I am a re-elected member of the National Assembly. Because different people have different interests in it. So I’m in a position to see the maximum as 10%, and the increase in natural tax revenue would probably be 60 trillion more this year. Are you talking about that?
[윤석열]
There may be excess tax. Excess tax revenue means that the Ministry of Strategy and Finance does not properly collect revenue and expenditure, and the tax revenue increases little by little, every year. [안철수] What do you think accounts for the largest share of excess tax revenue this year?
[윤석열]
I know there are a lot of taxes on land.
[안철수]
Due to the soaring real estate prices, there was a lot of capital gains. So it won’t happen again next year, next year. So it’s unreasonable to plan everything here, and I’d like to say that.
[사회자]
Candidate Cheol-Soo Ahn, I would like to ask a question to others as well.
[안철수]
So, let me ask another question to Candidate Jae-myung Lee. What do you think of the word populism?
[이재명]
But it goes on both sides. As the opposite of elitism or as populism. This is a typical case where the same word is used slightly differently.
[안철수]
You must have already calculated that you will need a budget for five years to some extent due to the promises made so far. Can you tell me how much?
[이재명]
We’re still… I mean, because, for example, we haven’t announced exactly all of the child allowances and stuff like that. According to our calculations, the available budget seems to be within 300 trillion won, so we are adjusting it so that it is between 250 and 300 trillion won so that it does not exceed 300 trillion won.
[안철수]
Are you talking about the year?
[이재명]
That’s right.
[안철수]
In 5 years…
[이재명]
Total… not yearly. There can be no year. All together for 5 years.
[안철수]
According to our calculations, 80 to 400 trillion won per year. If you take 5 years, it will be about 400~2000 trillion. Isn’t that a huge amount of money? Where can we get this money?
[이재명]
Which one cost 2000 trillion?
[안철수]
Where can you come up with such a huge amount of money?
[이재명]
Where does 2000 trillion suddenly come from?
[안철수]
We calculated it, and we’ll show it to you later.
[이재명]
It doesn’t make sense to us at all.
[안철수]
Where can you make it from?
[이재명]
You can’t make 2000 trillion. Our forecast is that after 5 years, the budget will naturally increase, and there are things like forecasts.
[사회자]
Time is running out. You may explain that part later during the debate on the initiative of candidate Lee Jae-myung. The next initiative discussion is in the order of Candidate Seok-Yeol Yoon. Let’s get started.
[윤석열]
Today, I stop asking about Daejang-dong. The site of the Baekhyeon-dong Food Research Institute, I would like to ask you about the 50m-long retaining wall. You always say that you are a master of competent economic administration, so this change of use has been rejected twice now, but the person who served as the secretary of Lee’s law office and the head of the Seongnam mayor’s election campaign was recruited by the development company. The floor area ratio increases 5 times as it jumps four steps from the natural green area in
[이재명]
Senator, let’s check the facts first and then we’ll talk. There are too many falsehoods.
[윤석열]
‘Cause I’m asking a question I’ve checked all of this. Just answer it. So now, this business has benefited from about 300 billion won. Of course, there was also a re-approval that lowered the rental housing price to 1/10. The problem now is that the 50m retaining wall here is the first time the head of the Korea Forest Service has ever seen anything like this.
So this is a risk of collapse, or because the land shape is similar to the collapse of the Sangdo-dong Kindergarten right now, so now the construction approval is being rejected. As a result, thousands of residents here are unable to register and are having very difficult loans. Can you say that this is a normal administration and that you are a master of economic administration?
[이재명]
Once you’ve checked the facts, you’re the secretary, this is not true at all. The story of the secretary of the law firm is not true at all. The second…
[윤석열]
Wasn’t that the commander-in-chief?
[이재명]
in the 2006 falling elections. Let me tell you that it happened a long time later. First of all, let me tell you that I am a person who cannot communicate well.
[윤석열]
So why did this preference happen?
[이재명]
candidate.
[사회자]
Please allow 30 seconds to answer your question.
[이재명]
You’re a lawyer, wouldn’t it be better to keep your promises? This is from the Urban Planning Deliberation Committee, and I don’t know the details. Because it is handled by the Urban Planning Deliberation Committee and related departments. Everything has been dealt with in accordance with the relevant regulations. Haven’t you come to the conclusion that this is illegal or wrong? And here I tell you, because the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport requested it to relocate public institutions in Seongnam City, I kept rejecting it. it will.
[윤석열]
If you tell the truth, you are telling the truth and saying something different. good. Then let me ask you one more question of the same kind.
In Jeongja-dong, Bundang, there is a 3,000-pyong hospital site owned by Doosan E&C. Please change this use to commercial land. So, what was acquired for 7.2 billion won has risen to hundreds of billions of won now, so Doosan also uses this to get 130 billion won in collateral to solve the financial difficulties. And immediately after that, Doosan E&C donated 4.2 billion won to Seongnam FC at a rate of 2.1 billion won a year in the following year and the following year. It’s also a bit difficult to understand.
It is difficult to do this without any consideration, and when donations are raised, executives are expected to receive a performance pay of 10-20% according to Seongnam City regulations, and the mayor, the owner of the club, has to decide on the performance pay. The city council also received a donation like this from a company with an pending issue of 16.5 billion won for 3 years while our candidate, who joined FC, was serving as mayor. Are you refusing to reveal it openly?
[이재명]
First, companies attract companies when they use land that has been left unattended for a long time. Our candidate also promised that he would go to Saemangeum and supply land at cost, and he would give benefits, didn’t he? If the candidate does it, is it attracting companies, and if I do it, is it a preference? This isn’t 7 billion won, but it stopped building a hospital 30 years ago and it was left as an abomination. By changing this, businesses come in, taxes, and jobs are created. We received 10% of public acquisition and returned more than 30 billion won in benefits. Is it okay to swear and criticize for attracting companies?
Second, you keep saying things that are not true, and you shouldn’t do that. This was the police investigation for three years and six months after the people’s power reported it several times. So I did all the tracking of the funds.
[윤석열]
What do you do with money tracking?
[이재명]
The police did all the tracking of the money. But I keep coming up with the fact that it’s not like this. Why is the prosecutor like that? I have to tell the truth.
[사회자]
Candidate Seok-Yeol Yoon, I would like to ask someone else a question.
[윤석열]
‘Cause you’re saying it’s not true
[사회자]
I have to listen to an answer for more than 30 seconds, so please ask the question as short as possible.
[윤석열]
Let me ask you about it. Our Candidate Cheol-soo Ahn, did the police conduct a poor investigation and the prosecution tried to catch up with this fund, but then the upper-level press pushed it down, and the deputy chief prosecutor resigned, did you see the news recently?
[안철수]
Yes.
[윤석열]
What do you think? Do you think it was confirmed that our candidate Lee Jae-myung had no problem at all, even though the police had properly investigated this? How is it?
[안철수]
I think the current direction of the Moon Jae-in administration’s prosecution reform is completely wrong. I think it is necessary to adjust the powers of the police investigation once again, and now to get rid of the high-ranking public officials investigation office, which has now become ineffective.
[사회자]
You did a good job. This is the order of candidate Jae-myung Lee for this initiative debate. tell me
[이재명]
Actually, I have a lot to say about negative topics. We cannot afford to waste this precious time so much on the lives of our people, so we will put it off until later. Our Candidate Sang-Jeong Shim, there is an area I am interested in, but because of the Fat Cat Act, the salary of executives compared to the minimum wage was limited to 12 times or less.
[심상정]
10 times for the public sector, 5 times for members of the National Assembly, and 30 times for the private sector.
[이재명]
I’m actually very ideologically sympathetic. In particular, I think public institutions should do so. Isn’t it your intention to do that to the private sector as well?
[심상정]
30 times the private sector. First of all, we wanted to set an example in the public sector.
[이재명]
I really respect the ideal values of the Justice Party, but sometimes when I look at it like this, I think that it is too far from reality.
[심상정]
What’s off? Tell us about measures to address extreme inequality.
[이재명]
I’ll talk to you. It is the job of politicians to have a sense of reality as a merchant.
For example, let me ask you a question. If the limit is 30 times, Samsung Electronics’ senior executives are just trying to recruit high-level executives from China for technology outflow, but if the wages of senior executives at those companies are limited, this could happen if they escape to China. It could be a collapse promotion law that collapses large companies with international competitiveness such as Samsung, and another is the Chinese Smile Law and the Chinese Xi Jinping Smile Law. I think China will like it very much. I don’t think it’s an irresponsible argument. Tell me please.
[심상정]
Korea’s current inequality is large in the income gap and wealth sector. Income gap, how to squeeze the income gap in the market. In the process, I talked about the fat cat method. There are several discussions about the private sector. The important thing is that the Democratic Party or candidate Lee Jae-myung make a clear decision starting with the public sector and the National Assembly sector. Then the private sector is willing to discuss it. But now, in the metropolitan cities of the region, almost 12 metropolitan cities have all decided on this in their councils. However, it is not only the parliament that is not. The Democratic Party of Korea does not agree.
So what do I mean? Now, let’s start with the public sector and take the lead in the efforts of reducing this gap and possibly narrowing the gap between the maximum and minimum wages, and let the National Assembly take the lead. Then I would like to say that if Candidate Jae-myung Lee decides to reduce the size of the National Assembly by 5 times and the public sector by 10 times, I will be willing to discuss it in the private sector as well.
[이재명]
Because I spend a lot of time Let me ask Candidate Ahn Cheol-soo once more. I believe that the most serious problem in our society is unbalanced growth. In the past, resources were scarce, so intensive investments were made in specific companies, such as chaebols, specific regions, or the metropolitan area.
I have jurisdiction over Gyeonggi-do, and when I go to Gwangju, Gyeonggi-do, there is no space for classes at an elementary school, so I put containers on the playground as if evacuating. But provinces are screaming that the population will decrease and disappear. In order to solve this problem, balanced development must be achieved through extensive investment in local areas. What do you think of Candidate Ahn regarding balanced development? I think that local priority should be given to finance, infrastructure investment, industrial research institutes, school placement, etc.
Maybe that’s why I’m a large-scale development zone that connects the southern metropolitan area, Yeongnam, and Honam. Or, let’s make a mega city by investing intensively in Daegu, Gyeongbu, or Busan or Gwangju and Jeollanam-do.
[안철수]
Two things. Actually, I have a belief in balanced development. However, no matter how much public corporations have been sent down from the central government so far, the region has not developed. The key is to give local governments the authority to attract private companies. If you have legal and financial powers, you will work hard to sell to good companies at home and abroad in order to attract good companies to compete with each other.
And also, sociologists have proven that the economy you mentioned can develop on its own when there are more than 5 million people, and a virtuous cycle is possible within it. Therefore, the idea is to first make a success story from 8.5 million in the Boulevard and spread it all over the country like this.
[이재명]
You seem to have almost the same opinion as me. Create a mega city, create the southern metropolitan area, and secure its own power generation capacity. I agree.
Candidate Yoon, let me ask you one question. For example, it is good to have beneficial facilities in the province, but you also understand that you should not place disadvantageous facilities, right? for balanced development. However, you said that you would deploy THAAD, which is economically ineffective and not very helpful, in the provinces, but where would you deploy it specifically? I have to install it in a place where it is needed, not in the province, or give up the installation. Could you please give me one more opinion?
[윤석열]
It’s a military strategy and tactical thing, so you have to choose a point that is most advantageous for defense of the metropolitan area.
[이재명]
Well, the same is true of nuclear power plants, didn’t you say you would install additional nuclear power plants now? Where else would you like to install it?
[윤석열]
He said that he would build all the nuclear power plants currently under construction, but he did not say that he would put additional nuclear power plants in new areas.
[이재명]
Didn’t you say that 4 additional units are being built?
[윤석열]
I didn’t.
[이재명]
Yes? In any case, I think that balanced regional development and regional balanced development are really important tasks of our time. This is not a matter of consideration, I think that it is now an unavoidable core task for our country to continuously grow and develop. In the end, we have to concede a lot to the provinces for the financial resources we have or for industrial deployment and infrastructure construction. Surprisingly, however, our people have a very high level of sympathy for this aspect. When I moved public institutions from Gyeonggi-do to the northern and eastern regions, many people readily agreed to it.
[사회자]
Thank you. This is the order of Candidate Sang-Jeong Shim for the leading debate.
[심상정]
On behalf of Jisoo Kim, a teacher at Civic Cheongju High School who asked me to speak for one minute, I would like to ask Candidate Lee about the Anti-Discrimination Act. Yesterday, President Moon Jae-in said that he would actively promote the anti-discrimination law for the rest of my term. This is Jae-myung Lee, a Democrat right now, right? What are you going to do?
[이재명]
I think it is right to enact the anti-discrimination law, even if there is some controversy anyway.
[심상정]
So, he went to church and said it was not an urgent matter, and he said that we should discuss it at the National Assembly in December. So, if you are willing to discuss in detail, President Moon Jae-in also mentioned the end of his term, so I will politely make a proposal.
March 3rd is the 1st anniversary of the late Sergeant Byun Hee-soo. You probably know who it is. He is a man who could not protect the soldier who wanted to protect the country because the state is a sexual minority. If the anti-discrimination law was enacted on March 3 in memory of Sgt. What are you going to do?
[이재명]
But this is not something the Democrats can decide on their own. Now, it would be good to ask Candidate Yoon Seok-yeol for his opinion. The problem is that I am also not a member of the National Assembly, so I do not have direct command over the National Assembly, but I have clearly stated something within the party. It would be better to discuss the legislation directly in the National Assembly.
[심상정]
In other cases, he even instructed me to mobilize the fast track. Candidate Jae-myung Lee, so each person has a slightly different opinion, what he says is different and different from region to region, and what he said yesterday and today is somewhat different.
[이재명]
It’s not like that. that…
[심상정]
Please state clearly whether it is a written article or not, about the anti-discrimination law.
[이재명]
In summary, the anti-discrimination law should be enacted. However, it seems that this is not a case that can be done in a compulsory manner. So, it would be better to discuss it quickly in the National Assembly and deal with it. This is my position. Are you in a position to enforce this now?
[심상정]
It is a very difficult problem for politicians who are conscious of votes. I’m also a constituency in the last general election… I’ll tell you. I’ve been discussing this with the constituencies for a long time. So, when we talked about the roles of politics and religion, when we couldn’t agree on the anti-discrimination law, when our pastors said, “Please don’t take the lead,” I was like that.
I didn’t take the lead in the first place. At first, the Roh Moo-hyun administration and the Democratic Party lawmakers said they would take the lead in enacting the anti-discrimination law, so I stood behind the scenes with a willingness to help. However, as some of the opposition was confirmed, they all ran away. So I was in the front row. But if even I run away, who will the many weak people, including LGBT people, depend on in our society? I think that this issue is not a matter of practicality, but a matter of values, and I think that a person who has the will to not leave anyone to discrimination and hatred deserves the presidency of a democratic country. I hope that Candidate Jae-myung Lee will make a decision on this issue.
[이재명]
If you also ask our Candidate Yoon for his opinion, I think it would be realistically possible.
[심상정]
It’s up to me to ask.
[이재명]
So it’s not that the Democrats aren’t going to do it, it’s something the Democrats don’t want to do.
[심상정]
Don’t blame others, I was the Democratic Party’s party and it was first raised by President Roh Moo-hyun.
[이재명]
A bill has been proposed, already.
[심상정]
Let me ask you another question. I have no intention of making an issue of the candidate’s privacy. However, the matter of spouse protocol is not a private matter. I would like to say that I think it is a matter related to Candidate Jae-myung Lee’s qualifications and take it very seriously.
A mayor or governor cannot have a spouse’s personal support or protocol staff. In 2016, the Ministry of Government Administration and Home Affairs even issued guidelines prohibiting public officials from conducting or performing private activities of the spouses of group heads. But now, the problem is that Secretary Bae’s personnel right was candidate Lee Jae-myung. This is the reason why I see this as a risk to candidate Lee Jae-myung himself, not a spouse risk. What do you think?
[이재명]
Anyway, since a person I was in a very close personal relationship with came into a special position, that person mainly helped with public affairs. I apologize once again because it is my negligence without any excuses and I did not strictly manage it.
[심상정]
If this had been a simple negligence, I wouldn’t have talked about it today. I used to go back and forth from home frequently, acting as my spouse’s secretary. So, in fact, for 11 years since the mayor of Seongnam, in fact, it is no different than making a secretary’s office for your spouse. So this is because candidate Lee came up as the presidential candidate in 2017 and actually prepared for the presidential election for five years. It happened during that time. That is why it is difficult for our people to understand.
And moreover, isn’t candidate Lee Dong-gyu leaving the Daejang-dong project to Mr. Dong-gyu Lee, who has no expertise? Because the president is the supreme authority, it is our people’s opinion that it should never be used for private use of the public authority granted by the people. But wouldn’t it be a big deal if such a light and careless use of such personnel rights related to family and close associates like this? I hope that the people’s concerns are taken seriously.
[사회자]
I’d like to ask someone else a question as well.
[이재명]
I would also like to give you a chance to answer for a moment.
[심상정]
I didn’t ask the question again. That’s what I said. Then, candidate Yoon Seok-yeol. I will also ask a question to Candidate Yoon. In relation to the Deutsche Motors stock price manipulation case, an account different from that of Kim Geon-hee, which was previously disclosed, has been found, and it is reported that suspicious transaction details are now available. If there are no real problems, please disclose your transaction history.
[윤석열]
Well, what transaction history…
[심상정]
If a person who wants to boost stock prices by eliminating the stock transfer tax is not proud of the allegations of serious crimes disturbing the capital market, wouldn’t that be a good thing? tell me
[윤석열]
I don’t even know how the data from the prosecution’s investigation process got leaked to the media and what it means. I explained everything about the part where the police intelligence that appeared around this time last year was passed on to Newstapa somewhere. The account was also disclosed.
[심상정]
I didn’t ask that question to hear you say that.
[윤석열]
Recently on KBS…
[심상정]
I’m in charge, so be still.
[사회자]
Candidate, because time has passed.
[심상정]
I’m running out of time, so I’m trying to finish it.
[사회자]
You just have to wait for a reply. There is a 30 second rule.
[심상정]
I gave it to you, 30 seconds.
[사회자]
Then say
[심상정]
So what I am saying is that the presidential candidate is apologizing to the people just by raising these allegations. I have an obligation to answer all doubts honestly. Be honest, open your account.
[사회자]
Okay.
[윤석열]
thoroughly received.