2023-09-09 03:40:23
The MR makes its political comeback this Saturday at the Lacs de l’Eau d’Heure. The opportunity to discuss current events and certain key points of the next liberal campaign with its president Georges-Louis Bouchez.
While we met Georges-Louis Bouchez at the MR headquarters this Thursday, Vincent Van Quickenborne (Open Vld) tried to convince the deputies of his good faith after the incident that occurred during a party at his home. Although he claims to believe the explanations of the Minister of Justice, the president of the MR, however, deplores the “unacceptable” attitude of the Flemish liberal’s guests who urinated on a law enforcement vehicle.
“The police are respected,” asserts Bouchez. We hadn’t really planned to talk about police and justice with him, but once started, the boss of the MR becomes inexhaustible. From his office overlooking Poelart’s masterpiece, still encased in its scaffolding, he launches into a tirade on the flaws of the judicial and police systems. Problems that he refuses to attribute solely to lack of resources.
And to illustrate his point, what could be better than mentioning Brussels, more precisely the difficulties in Midnight station. If he sees in the deterioration of the situation on the spot the combination of a “left-wing laxityall of which are designed to see individuals as victims”, of a lax policy on migration and of a “communitarianism maintained by associations preferring to manage poverty rather than resolve it”, the liberal does not believe that An increase in the number of agents on site alone will improve things.
“If tomorrow you add 50 police officers to the Gare du Midi, what will happen? Nothing. During the latest arrests, the police arrested around forty undocumented immigrants. And where are they today? In nature. The police work with resources, which need to be improved, but they manage to make arrests. The problem is administrative and judicial monitoring. We have incredible waste of resources in terms of justice because we have procedures and techniques that are no longer suitable.”
Under this legislature, the situation has not evolved much for the police and justice. What’s blocking?
It is a question of mentality regarding reforms. Whenever you want to reform a sector, many players only look at their position and forget the bigger picture. Gold, if there is no reform, I do not see the point of putting more resources. I also regret that every time a justice actor speaks publicly, it is only to come back with this refrain of means. In my opinion, we have everything to gain from working on the overall “means and reforms” package.
It’s been almost 25 years since we carried out police reform. It’s high time to put everything back together. Same thing for justice. It would be fashionable if the MR could take up sovereign matters. The last time we had the Interior, it was precisely at the time of police reform.
You also said that employment-related matters interested you. When the boss of Forem declares that just half of the 223,000 unemployed Walloons will not return to work, what does that inspire you?
When I read in your columns that Forem only trains one in thirty unemployed people for a job in shortage, I didn’t even know what to tweet. And when we are told that around 40% of job seekers are not recoverable, we are in fact being told that people to whom unemployment benefit is paid are no longer available for employment. But then why are we keeping them unemployed? This means that the activation did not work and that they need other social support. They can find it at the CPAS.
“There is nothing that explains why there is a 10 point difference between the Flemish employment rate and that of Wallonia. The only thing is the mentality!”
But the CPAS do not have the means for this…
We could consider a transfer of resources from Forem to the CPAS. Look in Denmark, it is the municipalities which are responsible for activation.
The 40% mentioned are people who do not have a diploma higher than secondary 4.
Ms. Vanbockestal’s words illustrate why Wallonia cannot get out of this situation. An example: we are currently looking for 300 drivers at TEC. I’m not saying that everyone can do it, but if you have a little good will and are motivated, there is still a way to get the job done. How is it that we are one of the regions in Europe with the lowest employment rate, while we also spend aircraft carriers on education? There is nothing to explain why there is a 10 point difference between the Flemish employment rate and that of Wallonia. The only thing is the mentality!
Should we be stricter in checks on the unemployed?
What Forem did not give you as a figure is the number of passive availability checks carried out last quarter. There were three and they led to two sanctions. I would like someone to introduce me to the two people who were sanctioned, because they are, in a way, heroes of the Nation. Thanks to them, we can still make people believe that there is an activation policy.
The reality is that today activation is not sufficiently voluntary and enthusiastic. (Editor’s note: contacted by us, Forem believes that its action to control passive availability cannot be summarized in these figures. In the first half of 2023, it indicates having noted 693 infractions, 2 of which concerned refusals of employment. The data for the current quarter could not be provided to us.)
Forem has political supervision and operates under a management contract. Your party is in the majority…
There is a blockage in the PS in relation to our demands at the Federal Government and in Wallonia. We’re not going to lie to each other, we do not have the sufficient political balance of power to circumvent the PS veto in terms of employment reforms. If at one point it is the MR who heads the government, it will probably be different.
Is making work more flexible also a way to improve our employment rate?
I think that’we have a mentality problem regarding work, but that does not mean that the work must remain rigid. It is not because someone stops working for a month each year, because they want to harvest the grapes for example, that there is a problem. If the rest of the time he leaves at 7 p.m. instead of 5 p.m., it works. Someone who works 4/5 and is paid accordingly is also fair. Flexibility also means leaving your job more easily and retraining more easily. So it can be useful, including for boxes.
©Wouter Van Vooren
But companies sometimes complain that workers leave them after just a few years…
As a liberal, I like it when we are in a relationship of equals. The company must make efforts to keep its staff and they must be attractive so that the company wants to keep them; this creates healthy competition. I am in favor of making the entire system more flexible. You could have a right to unemployment in the event of resignation after a certain number of years, for example., but contributions must also be less burdensome for businesses. I am certain that if we make both hiring and dismissal more flexible, we will see a reduction in the disability rate.
You are talking about inactivity. What do you think of the efforts made by Frank Vandenbroucke (Vooruit) to reintegrate long-term patients?
Let’s say that for a socialist, it’s not bad. He dared to recognize that there was a problem and tried to find a way. We wouldn’t have had that with a Walloon socialist. In the absence of thrushes, we eat blackbirds. But it’s not enough! There is one point in particular which is taboo, these are certificates of convenience. I am appalled by the number of people in certain regions who have back pain or who are burned out. There are abuses which sometimes suit both employers and employees. We must be more proactive in the face of this. And if I allow myself to be so harsh about inactivity, it’s because there are 200,000 vacant jobs in our country. With the aging of the population, the phenomenon risks intensifying.
Economic migration may be necessary…
No, we won’t do it until we activate our unemployed. If tomorrow, we can pass laws limiting unemployment benefits over time, rules regarding the real activation of job seekers, activation rules at the CPAS level, then we will be able to carry out economic migration .
“The theme of climate and energy has now become our strong point. We are the most credible.”
In the short term, what about the regularization of undocumented immigrants who have the skills to perform professions in shortage?
The regularization of undocumented immigrants carries with it a fundamental problem: these are people who received orders to leave the territory and did not carry them out. Regularizing them is sending the wrong signal.
Let’s move on: the success of the state bond will probably be exploited by Vincent Van Peteghem (CD&V) in the campaign. But what will the MR sell to voters? The extension of nuclear power?
Is the extension of nuclear power popular in public opinion?
I think that since the war in Ukraine, citizens have seen the risks of supply disruptions.
Above all, they saw their bill increase…
That’s true, but we have greater control over the bill when we have control over energy production. There is also the CO2 impact which is significant. I also thought I understood that it was something that was part of people’s problems…
Wider, the fact of avoiding disasters under this legislature has given us credibility. When we said: we will not touch the researchers’ withholding tax, we did not touch it. When we said: we are going to maintain the company cars, we maintained the company cars by greening them. The same goes for tax loopholes that allow investment, development, etc. Overall, we arrive at the elections without having the opposite of what we had announced. But there is one thing above all that we often forget to remember, which is that 100% of the legacy of the Michel government has been preserved.
A Vivaldi II, do you take or do you prefer a Swedish one?
You ask me what I prefer between a Fiat Panda and an Aston Martin Valkyrie? Of course I want the Aston Martin. My ideal government is a Swedish one. Afterwards, a Fiat Panda doesn’t drive so bad and you can possibly improve it by adding a little air conditioning, Bluetooth, or even a good GPS. If at some point the math imposes this on us, we will do it. But the key is in the hands of Bart De Wever.
“For me, the real divide is between the MR and the PTB.”
This is a good thing?
De Wever said last week that I have some interesting ideas and that we have many points in common. We actually have some, but we also have a point of divergence on the community. That said, there is still one area in which we are ready to move forward: financial accountability. And if I’m not mistaken, this is a major issue for the Flemish Movement. Continuing to divide administrations, distribute skills and further increase inefficiency, on the other hand, I don’t want it.
One of the challenges for your campaign will be to win back voters who left for Ecolo in 2019?
We have two target audiences: the popular and working classes.
You say: “I am a proletarian”, “The MR is the workers’ party”. According to you, are you more to the left than the PS and the PTB?
What I have tried to do since the beginning of my mandate as president is to establish a popular right line. You have two conceptions of things. There is the one who wants people to be victims, it is more the left tendency. The other is that of people who want to take charge of their lives, this is the right-wing liberal tendency. Our movement is only legitimate, credible and useful with the support of the popular classes.. There is no point in explaining to the happy few the benefits of globalization and liberalism because they already experience them on a daily basis. The challenge is to make the working classes understand how they fit into this model and why it is favorable to them.
“Our response on many topics can be contained in two sentences, that was one of my goals.”
In other words, do you hunt on the same lands as the PTB?
In the analysis of the problems, we are quite similar to the PTB, but we have a major divergence on the solutions. I’m not afraid to say we’re on the same playing field Today. For me, the real divide is between the MR and the PTB. The latter took moral, intellectual and programmatic leadership of the left. The other two parties try to run behind him. The real debate that I must lead is therefore a debate with the PTB because its ideas contaminate other left-wing groups. Why should I apply for copies?
Isn’t it complicated for the MR to change and become a party that embodies the solution for these working classes…
You have to have language that is quite clear, which is the case with MR. Our response on many topics can be contained in two sentences, that was one of my goals. That’s for style. As for substance: I tried to talk about what people experience on a daily basis. In Mons, I have this life and therefore I must not force myself. When I say I’m a proletarian, I really am.
©Wouter Van Vooren
Being comfortable in this environment does not make you a proletarian. You didn’t work as a worker, you didn’t work with your hands…
But what is a proletarian? He is someone who only has his work as a means of subsistence. That’s the starting definition. In fact, the reflection you are making is what killed social democracy in Europe, with the unfortunate exception of the Walloon PS which, for reasons of clientelism and local anchoring, had better resisted. At the end of the 1980s, social democracy thought that there were no more proletarians. Blue-collar workers gradually became white-collar workers. Error: in fact the proletarians have remained so, profoundly.
Okay, you come from this background, but you still don’t live this reality on a daily basis.
I’m ready to take it on. I remain convinced that you never really culturally leave your original environment. I’m not afraid to say it: most of my salary I put aside because I’m always with this idea that I might run out of money tomorrow. It’s a real fear. And besides, I’m even going to tell you a secret, I tell myself that you should always try to be several months in advance to continue to meet your primary needs.
I find that this is the price of freedom. I did not change my lifestyle by becoming party president. I always tell myself that it will end one day and that behind it, I don’t know what will be there. When I speak of proletarian, it is this logic.
You are often singled out for your mandate in the Senate, which is very well paid even though you are not very active there. Shouldn’t you have given it up?
Let me be clear: my compensation does not change. The remuneration of president of the MR is capped on that of a vice-premier (Editor’s note: 257,000 euros gross per year in 2021, according to the Court of Auditors). So the only difference, it remains public money, is that my share, paid by the Senate (Editor’s note: 52,000 euros), is deducted from what the party financing non-profit organization remunerates me. And so we deduct this part so that I arrive at the same level. For the rest, I have a parliamentary activity which is a little higher than that of all the other party presidents who are also parliamentarians.
Party president, will you be until the elections?
Regarding the end of my mandate, I let others decide whether internal elections are necessary or not. This year. I’m a Democrat, I don’t have a problem with that.
Key phrases
- “How is it that we are one of the regions in Europe with the lowest employment rate, while we also spend aircraft carriers on education?”
- “De Wever said last week that I have interesting ideas and that we have many points in common. We actually have some, but we also have a point of divergence on the community.”
- “In the analysis of the problems, we are quite close to the PTB, but we have a major divergence on the solutions.”
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