2023-11-19 07:25:07
The European Green Deal is in danger because of the EPP, warns the co-president of the European Greens, Philippe Lamberts, during an interview with L’Echo. He also denounces the difficulty environmentalists have in “saying no” to their political partners.
Elected three times in a row to the European Parliament, where he was at the head of the Green group for ten years, Philippe Lamberts (Ecolo), established himself as one of the essential tribunes of the hemicycle. Until he retorted French President Emmanuel Macron during a relentless tirade seen millions of times on Youtube. He is one of the architects of the European Green Deal through an opposition that European ecologists wanted to be constructive.
His mandate as deputy ending in June, after the elections, Philippe Lamberts takes a more critical look at the European Union and his partywhile admitting his sympathy for the President of the European Commission, the Christian Democrat Ursula von der Leyen (PPE).
What assessment do you draw from these fifteen years in the European Parliament?
I arrived in the wake of the financial crisis of 2008, with the idea that such a shock would move the lines. I was full of enthusiasm. Sadly, I found that the energy to change things quickly evaporated. These were the Barroso II years. We stroked our bellies and said that “the banks would be protected”. But the problem had just been shifted to debt and shadow banking. And the taxpayer was going to checkout again.
Afterwards, we had the Juncker years. When he took stock of his mandate in 2019, before the European Parliament, Juncker did not say the word climate once. Here’s a guy who chaired the European Commission during COP21, the Paris Accords and intense climate debates… and it didn’t even deserve a mention.
Then Ursula von der Leyen arrives…
“If I were von der Leyen, I would be furious with the EPP, because they are not behaving very loyally towards the Commission.”
And that’s the surprise: she announces a Green Deal in her first speech, before the inauguration. We don’t believe it. We end up voting against her. Shortly after, against all expectations, we noted that this President of the Commission, who had never shown when she was minister the slightest inclination to discuss subjects linked to the planet, decided to launch this Green Deal, the most ambitious transformation program of the European Union.
The pandemic and the war in Ukraine gave von der Leyen and member states two opportunities to kill the Green Deal. But up to a year after the invasion of Ukraineit held up well.
Then, 14 months ago, the EPP launched an offensive to slow down the Green Deal, joined by liberals who called for a pause. One evening, the president of the EPP Manfred Weber said to me: “she (Editor’s note: von der Leyen) is her, and we are us.”
Do you feel close to Ursula von der Leyen?
Yes, she quite amazed me. His conviction on the ecological transition is real. And having known Juncker and Barroso, it’s day and night.
Don’t you feel like you’ve been fooled when we see how the EPP is blocking the Green Deal?
We were not fooled to the extent that we have never made a majority pact. The EPP owes us nothing. We have supported what is good, that is constructive opposition. On the other hand, if I were von der Leyen, I would be furious with the EPP, because it does not behave with much loyalty towards the Commission.
“The risk is that during the next legislature, the EU will bury the Green Deal.”
It is clear that the Green Deal is in danger, because the small majority that installed von der Leyen at the head of the Commission did not ask him for a Green Deal. But she still put it on the table, in the middle of the Climate Marches, and they had to swallow it.
The pandemic hasn’t changed anything, but the crisis that followed has awakened those who say that “paying for the environment is starting to work”. Those who had reluctantly accepted the Green Deal began to oppose it.
Doesn’t Emmanuel Macron’s insistence on relaunching nuclear power endanger the Green Deal?
Of course, but it’s not just France that does this. We also found gas in the taxonomy, and the Germans are no strangers to it. We are reducing the sail.
The risk is that during the next legislature, the EU will bury the Green Deal. While it would be necessary, on the contrary, a Green Deal 2.0 because many areas were left intact by the first: everything relating to nature, agriculture and fishing.
Should a high-level position be created within the next Commission to launch this Green Deal 2.0?
Above all, the commissioners in charge should be convinced of the need for transformation.
This is not the case?
Things are not moving forward. The agribusiness lobby enjoys such an audience in the European bubble! The agricultural voice is captured by agribusiness leaders who have nothing to do with being a farmer.
“Unless a Green is one day president of the Commission, von der Leyen is the best person for the Green Deal to continue.”
Farmers should, on the contrary, understand that change can be favorable to them. We must be able to create alliances in this world, as we did with the industry.
Would you be ready to invest in this mission?
Of course. The Green Deal is far from over, my time in Parliament is over and I retain political capital at European level. If I can play a role, I will do it with pleasure. But for that, an arrangement is needed after the elections.
Will the EPP support a second term for von der Leyen as Commission head?
He has no choice, von der Leyen is the EPP’s best asset.
This proximity to a Christian Democratic leader does not bother your party president, Jean-Marc Nollet?
Honestly said, it does not seem scandalous to me to be delighted that a President of the Commission supports the European Green Deal. Unless a Green is one day president of the Commission, von der Leyen is the best person for the Green Deal to continue.
Did you agree with von der Leyen when she visited Israel after the Hamas pogrom?
There, I think thatshe made a political mistake in that she lacked balance. We absolutely must condemn the crimes of Hamas, the most absolute horror, crimes against humanity, but the answer cannot be to raze Gaza. It was necessary to be able to invite Israel to discernment.
The PS and Ecolo are criticized for being slow to react to this pogrom. What do you think?
There could have been a little faster response and more neutral on the part of Ecolo. But it is a delicate exercise.
Some elected officials are hesitant to consider Hamas as a terrorist group…
There is no ambiguity. Hamas is a terrorist group. It is on the EU list of terrorist organizations. How can anyone hesitate to say that? My group in the European Parliament is unambiguous on this. But try to describe the situation as the struggle of the camp of good against that of evil, it just makes any dialogue impossible. You have to show nuance.
“They say that ‘the Greens are the gravediggers of jobs’, but the reality is that our economic system is murderous.”
Wallonia has been shaken by a mini-crisis over the presence of PFAS in water. Should the Minister of the Environment, Céline Tellier, have taken better account of the precautionary principle?
Who’s to say she didn’t do it? Seeing the debate in Wallonia, I have the impression that we want to shoot the messenger rather than the person responsible. We must not pretend today to discover that we have made the omelette of growth by breaking eggs. Our surface waters are heavily polluted, and 80% of European land is degraded. The real precautionary principle is that these products should not be used.
They say that “the Greens are the gravediggers of jobs”, but the reality is that our economic system is murderous. When people ingest filth produced by this or that polluting business, they are the ones who die.
“In political relationships, people only respect you if you are able to resist.”
To what do you attribute Ecolo’s decline in the polls?
It’s a constant. When Ecolo is in power, we realize that there will be change, and this change is not always welcome. We prefer environmentalists in opposition. This being, Ecolo made mistakes, but I’m not going to talk about them here. I act at European level.
The Greens are also retreating at the European level, as in Luxembourg. Is it irremediable?
No. But we have work to do. We are entering the hard part of the Green Deal, and resistance is increasing. We can always complain that our opponents are tough, but in cases like this, you have to be good, and that’s not always the case.
Environmentalists must be able to say no. And I think that among the Greens – and this is perhaps a question of culture – we sometimes find it difficult to draw a line in the sand, and to say no. Niet. Because, as I often say, the sale begins when the customer starts to say no. In political relationships, people only respect you if you are able to resist.
Key phrases
- “14 months ago, the EPP launched an offensive to slow down the Green Dealjoined by liberals who called for a moratorium.”
- “If I were von der Leyen, I would be pissed at the EPPbecause he does not behave with much loyalty towards the Commission.”
- “It does not seem scandalous to me to welcome that a Commission President supports the European Green Deal.”
- “Hamas is a terrorist group. It is on the EU list of terrorist organizations. How can anyone hesitate to say that?”
- “Ecolo made mistakes, but I’m not going to talk about them here.”
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