The agreement on the amnesty law reached this week between the PSOE and the Catalan independence parties has caught the president, Pere Aragonès, in the midst of negotiations to approve the accounts of the Generalitat, in his last year of legislature. At the head of a Government in a minority in the Parliament, he maintains that the agreement that extinguishes criminal liability in acts related to process opens “a great opportunity” for the continuity of the legislature in Spain, but warns that his party, ERC, will be demanding on issues such as financing and defending an independence referendum. He also sends a last warning to the PSOE-Sumar coalition government. If Catalunya en Comú (Sumar’s reference in Catalonia) does not support its budgets, the scenario for Pedro Sánchez’s accounts becomes complicated.
Ask. Are you certain that the text of the amnesty finally agreed upon is legally sound and that it can be applied to all those affected?
Answer. The law is solid, robust, and should allow us to begin a new stage that leaves behind the illegitimate repression by certain powers of the State. A stage of negotiation and solution to the political conflict between Catalonia and Spain opens. Years ago, ERC made a commitment to the negotiation that allowed the release of political prisoners in 2021. Then, the modification of the Penal Code, and now we have the amnesty. The application depends on the Judiciary. But I think there is not much room for twisted interpretations.
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P. His party said that modifying the ruling, as has been done, could raise constitutionality problems. Do you think it will pass the filter of the Constitutional Court?
R. It has been written to overcome any revisions that may occur by the Constitutional Court, by the courts of the European Union. I am convinced that it will pass all the filters.
P. Do you believe, like Junts, that as of July, independence leaders such as Carles Puigdemont or Marta Rovira will be able to return to Spain without risk of being arrested?
R. The times are regulated by the additional and transitional provisions of the law, but also by the application made by the Judiciary. My wish is for it to be as soon as possible.
P. He doesn’t dare set a date.
R. The other times we have set dates, we have seen elements that have interfered. It is prudent to affirm that the exact date will not be determined by our will exclusively, but also by the application made by the courts.
P. And, politically, what do we have to expect from now on? For the PSOE it is time to turn the page on process. And for you?
R. It is time to turn the page on repression and now it is time for a new stage to resolve the political conflict. Note that the PSOE at first said that the amnesty was impossible and Junts said that the negotiation made no sense. At ERC we are betting on amnesty and negotiation and today the PSOE and Junts are in the position of ERC.
P. Does solving this conflict involve an independence referendum?
R. The independence referendum is our proposal. It is about all Catalans being able to speak out. We do not know the proposal of the PSOE or the PSC and we would like them to put it on the table in the next meetings.
P. If there is no progress in this direction, will there be no stability in the legislature?
R. We have a legislature that gives us a historic opportunity to reach this type of agreement. The amnesty law represents a before and after due to the correlation of parliamentary forces. If all goes well, the legislature will last until 2027. Apart from the Amnesty Law, there are other agreements that were agreed for the investiture of Pedro Sánchez and that must be fulfilled: the opening of the negotiation on the unique and own financing for Catalonia for ending the fiscal deficit, the transfer of Cercanías trains, and aspects about the plurinationality of the State. Therefore, after the Amnesty Law, I believe that the legislature can move forward, but as long as the commitments are fulfilled. For us, economic resources are important, but also sovereignty, and, therefore, it is important to collect all the taxes paid in Catalonia in order to later reach an agreement with the State.
P. The approval of his budgets in Catalonia depends on the commons, which require him to give up the Hard Rock macrocasino project in Tarragona. If these budgets are not approved, is ERC’s support for those of the Government in danger?
R. It has taken a lot to get here and achieve a context in which, where there were problems, we now have solutions. I am convinced that all actors will be responsible in this new situation. But if there are no budgets in Catalonia there will be an act of irresponsibility that, evidently, generates a much more difficult context. All progress parties should vote in favor of the budgets, since they contain 2.4 billion to reinforce the welfare state, provide resources to face the drought and are committed to reindustrialization.
P. Can you elaborate on what it means that a “more difficult” context would be generated? Would ERC vote against Pedro Sánchez’s budgets?
R. I am not one to issue threats or enter into these dynamics, but I believe that we are all adults and we know that without budgets in Catalonia we are introducing risks that are not worth it and, therefore, if we all act responsibly in all areas, everything is going to be fine.
P. Should Vice President Yolanda Díaz or the Minister of Culture, Ernest Urtasun, of the Commons, get involved to prevent this?
R. I am not going to talk about specific people, but I think they are, we are, aware of the importance of next week’s vote in Catalonia on the budgets of the Generalitat.
P. The Board of the Parliament of Catalonia, with the abstention of ERC, has chosen to process another popular legislative initiative for a unilateral declaration of independence. Isn’t this contradictory in the current context after the amnesty?
R. I think that ERC’s abstention in that vote clearly reflects what my opinion is on initiatives of this type. I believe that the priority now is negotiation, forging alliances and majorities and taking advantage of opportunities and benefits. This path is the one that gives results and should give many more. Nothing is easy and independence is not easy; If not, we would already have it. I want the independence of Catalonia, if it can be within an hour, but I am aware that, for it to be possible, the best way is an internationally recognized referendum. And for this the best way is a referendum agreed with the State.
P. Will you be a candidate for ERC in the Generalitat, whether or not Carles Puigdemont is a candidate for Junts?
R. The ERC candidates are not decided by State repression or other political forces. There is no reason to think that I will not be a candidate.
P. And will the Catalan legislature run out until February 2025, whether it has budgets or not?
R. One of my obsessions as president has been to provide certainty where there was uncertainty, that there is predictability and that institutions work. The legislature lasts four years and, therefore, there will be elections in February 2025. And for this reason I think it is important that the budgets be approved.
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