BILD am SONNTAG: Mr. Haldenwang, there are demonstrations against the high energy prices in more and more places. Do you expect a hot autumn with mass protests?
Thomas Haldenwang: “First of all, peaceful protests are protected by our constitution. The Office for the Protection of the Constitution looks closely to see whether this legitimate protest is being hijacked by enemies of democracy.
We currently have no signs of violent mass riots. The security authorities are prepared for all conceivable scenarios.”
Her Thuringian colleague Stephan Kramer warns of a “highly emotional, explosive and violent situation”, while the Corona protests are “children’s birthdays”.
Haldenwang: “I understand Mr. Kramer as representing the worst case, the worst scenario. I don’t expect protests to be more violent than at the peak of the demonstrations against the government’s corona measures.”
Haldenwang interviewing Lydia Rosenfelder (r.) and Angelika Hellemann in a branch of the domestic intelligence service in Berlin. On the wall is a picture by US artist Keith Haring († 31)
On September 5th, a Monday demonstration will go through Leipzig. Do you already know who will line up there?
Haldenwang: “During the Corona protests, right-wing extremists, people from the delegitimizing milieu, but also right-wing extremist parties such as the “Freie Sachsen” tried to hijack the protests – unsuccessfully. We see these people again now. It’s sort of their business model to abuse crises for their purposes.
They look where it is fermenting and sit on it. The content behind the protests seems to be of secondary importance. The main thing is to get people out on the streets and emotionalize the whole thing with populist terms like Anger Citizens or Anger Winter.”
But left-wing groups are also calling for demos. Are right-wing and left-wing extremists working together in the price crisis?
Haldenwang: “The right-wing extremist scene can only dream of such a transverse front, in which the camps join forces. Cooperation is out of the question for left-wing extremists because they see right-wing extremists as fascists.
Left-wing extremist protest exploits other issues: the extension of the use of coal, gas and nuclear power, the rearmament of the Bundeswehr.”
Where is the greatest danger? To the right? Left? Islamism?
Haldenwang: “The greatest threat to security and democracy in Germany comes from right-wing extremism. In no other area of extremism have there been so many deadly acts of violence since 1990.
What particularly worries me: right-wing extremists are trying to catch up with the middle-class. That normal citizens demonstrate with extremists is a phenomenon that we have seen since the protests in Chemnitz in 2018.”
Is Russia involved in the protests?
Haldenwang: “Only indirectly. Russia has massively expanded its disinformation activities in Germany and is spreading propaganda here. Russian narratives include that NATO forced war on Russia and that sanctions are to blame for the energy crisis.
Parts of the right-wing extremist scene adopt these slogans from Moscow. It’s remarkable how uncritically some right-wing extremists and right-wing populists make themselves Putin’s mouthpiece and sing his song.”
Has been at the head of the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution for almost four years: Thomas Haldenwang (62)
Russia was already spreading fake news during the refugee crisis, for example the rape of a girl named Lisa was fabricated. Is this happening more often now?
Haldenwang: “We see a very strong propaganda machine, but it works a little differently than before. We rarely see such flat misinformation as in the Lisa case.
State media and private actors work hand in hand to spread Russian lies. In addition, the propaganda has opened up other channels. Now, for example, influencers are also spreading Russian fake news on social networks like Telegram or Tiktok.”
Is Russian espionage also increasing?
Haldenwang: “Russia’s espionage activities were already more intense before the Ukraine war than during the Cold War. We dealt a serious blow to the Russian side, recently sending 40 agents from Germany and over 400 across Europe disguised as diplomats back to Moscow.
Attempts will be made to compensate for this, for example with traveling agents or cyber attacks. Political and economic information is of the utmost interest to Moscow.
Like the armaments package, all Bundeswehr, NATO and EU projects or future German energy policy. We are already seeing attempts to procure sanctioned goods illegally.”
This article comes from BILD am SONNTAG. The ePaper of the entire issue is available here.