2023-11-25 03:23:49
Psychologist Kelly G. Wilson.
Kelly G. Wilson is not a pessimistic guy, something he insists on emphasizing several times in a relaxed videoconference conversation. Maybe it’s a way to explain the title of her latest book, Things could go terribly wrong (Arpa, 2023), signed in four hands with behavioral therapist Troy DuFrene. With this conditional he does not intend so much to put himself in the worst, but rather to embrace fears and live with anxiety as a form of therapy. Wilson, (Olympia, United States, 69 years old) is a psychologist and professor at the University of Mississippi, USA. In his youth, he overcame drug addiction problems and suicidal ideas. He later became an academic and pioneer of acceptance therapies.
His career can be summed up in three letters ACT. But perhaps that is summarizing too much; This is the acronym, for its acronym in English, of Acceptance and Commitment Therapies, a theory that Wilson began to preach in the nineties and that has been gaining weight in the world of psychology over the years. He comes to say that it is better to assume miseries instead of avoiding them, to connect with one’s own fears instead of protecting oneself from them. In his latest book he explains, drawing on experiences and studies, that we should not flee from anxiety. Instead, it is best to immerse yourself fully in it, sit quietly and look around.
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Ask. Things could go terribly wrong. What a title…
Answer. Well, it’s quite true, isn’t it? If you live long enough, you will experience tragedy. I mean, it’s an inevitable part of life to the extent that you’re involved in the world, you care about it, and you live with a certain passion, you’re vulnerable to loss. Personally, I am a fairly optimistic person. I think people can free themselves. I just don’t think the best way to do it is to get rid of sadness and anxiety and things like that.
Q. And yet, in a certain sector of psychology, the idea is repeated that things will go well, that we will come out better, that wanting is being able…
A. I see that kind of thing often on the Internet: people who preach psychology as an exercise in self-affirmation, who repeat like a mantra that “I am good enough”, “I deserve to be loved”. And there is no evidence that doing this has a positive effect. In fact, there is some data that suggests the opposite. For example, there was a study in which children with low self-esteem and others with high self-esteem participated. And they all had to do this kind of self-affirmation exercise, telling themselves that they were good. Children who had high self-esteem felt a little better about themselves for a moment. But children who had low self-esteem actually felt worse.
Q. In your book you talk about mindfulness. Why does he think this concept, which has been used for millennia in different religions, has become so popular in recent years?
A. I suppose there are some very good reasons and also some bad ones. We live in a world where full attention is not paid. It’s all about efficiency. You have to do many things and very quickly. My watch is vibrating on my wrist, warning me of the following. My phone is full of notifications. The world flows toward us like it has never done before in human history. We have more access to what’s going on in the world, and in ways that actively intrude into our lives. I think people are hungry for simplicity, for experiences. Before this interview, for example, I spent two hours walking along mountain trails in the desert. I went out at dawn, and it’s just me, the wildlife, the sky and the sun. I don’t play music or anything. It’s just the sound of my own breathing, my feet hitting the ground…
Q. I was on the subway and I took advantage of the trip to answer emails. It is not always easy to find that time and place to meditate.
A. Exactly, and you have to ask yourself, when will we have a chance to stop? We live in a fast-paced world and we must actively look for those moments of pause. And we also have to find practices that work for us. Classical meditations, sitting, in silence… are beautiful, but they are monastic practices. And for some people they can work, but there are many other ways to practice mindfulness, to focus on the now with full attention. That’s why I encourage people to find a practice that works for them. I, for example, am not a very good meditator when it comes to sitting meditations. But you can try yoga, running in the countryside, swimming…
Q. When we talk about anxiety, beyond the internal causes, how important are the external, environmental ones?
A. People often assume that many psychological difficulties are basically something that happens inside the body. But we know that is not true, even in the most hereditary psychological difficulties. When someone tells you they have anxiety problems, they are usually complaining about something external. Let’s say you are a person vulnerable to a certain level of anxiety. And anxiety is not a continuum, there are moments in life with peaks in certain situations. But some people clearly seem to be more vulnerable, perhaps because of genetic variants, but also because we have different life histories.
Q. And what do people do when that peak of anxiety hits?
A. Let’s say that I am a person who has a certain social phobia, I am afraid that people will notice, that they will humiliate me, that they will see me as weak or that they will take advantage of me. One of the easiest ways to control that anxiety would be to not be around people. Or medicate myself to get rid of the anxiety. But realize what just happened there: my life got a little smaller. One of the things that happens with anxiety is that people realize the source that generates it and try to cut it off. And then try not to think about it. You don’t go to a party because it generates anxiety, and you don’t think about the fact that you haven’t gone because it generates more anxiety. It’s a common story, being anxious is something to be anxious about.
Q. And what you propose is the opposite, embracing those anxieties and accepting them.
A. Correct, you have to embrace anxieties for your own good. Values and vulnerabilities come from the same place. Your greatest vulnerability is often what you love most. What you long for most is also the place where you are most vulnerable. So I don’t know of any way to move away from insecurities that doesn’t also involve moving away from our values. What do we do with that inner world? What do we do with situations that make us anxious or sad? We can retreat and our world becomes smaller. But it is possible, and I know it sounds like a crazy idea, to take a different relationship with those experiences.
Q. Only 3% of the population is diagnosed with anxiety disorder, but you say that the numbers lie. Because?
A. One of the things that happens with diagnosis is that we divide psychological problems into many, many categories. Well, there are some here who are anxious and others who are more depressed. And now you have two categories. Then you get into the ones that are anxious and you say, well, some of these people are anxious about public spaces, but they’re not anxious about indoor spaces. Or they are socially anxious, but not worried about heights. Pretty soon we have anxiety divided into 100 categories. And each of them could represent a fairly small percentage, but if you add them up, it is much larger.
Q. And these numbers are increasing? Are we more anxious now than we were a few years ago?
A. It is a complicated question. Yes, there is some evidence to suggest that levels of anxiety and depression, as well as their lifetime prevalence, have increased markedly. But I would say we should be a little cautious with that. Me, with my age [69 años] Yes, I have been feeling depressed and anxious. And I have said it. If you asked my father about that, it’s unlikely he would answer you. And my grandfather would never have confessed to a psychological problem. I think it’s healthy for people to be able to talk about these things out loud. I’ve always been pretty open about mine. I have mentioned my mental health history. Suicidal depression. Psychiatric hospitalization. And a severe addiction to drugs and alcohol until the age of 30.
Q. Why is it important to say these things out loud?
A. I partly talked about it because when I write and teach about psychological suffering I do it from here [se señala un punto intermedio entre el estómago y el corazón]. Books are written from the inside out. So we have something to do with science, but also with real lived experience.
I grew up in the ’50s and ’60s, in this hyper-masculinized world, and anyone could make me cry. It was terrible to be a boy in this macho world. I cried easily, I was more interested in my mother’s sewing machine than in football. And I thought that vulnerability I had was the enemy. And I tried with all my might to push it down, to suppress it. And what ended up happening is that that same vulnerability has allowed me to listen to the suffering of others and not have to flee from it. What I thought was the enemy has become an incredible asset. Not without pain, but with purpose.
Q. In that sense, it seems that we are moving forward. Younger generations have started talking about mental health.
A. I have two millennial children and one from generation X. They have grown up in a world where people talk about these things. There are a lot of things we didn’t talk about in the fifties, sixties and seventies. And it wasn’t healthy. Think about all the things they talk about now that were hidden in plain sight then… So I think it’s good for them. Although sometimes I worry a little that people identify too much with their diagnoses. As if it became some kind of label. There is more to me than my history of alcoholism. There is more to me than my history of depression… And what is that more? I’m still figuring it out. Happily.
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